Curse

Axelia · Jun 04, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Well, we don't know if Minotaurs are restricted by the maximum damage hammers. The difference doesn't seem that drastic, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the high-end PvE to be slightly imbalanced in the favour of the monsters; players get coordinated parties, they get teams they can't choose, skills they can't choose and AI that only gives them a limited range of options.

Facing a level 28 enemy shouldn't be possible either because of the level cap, but it makes for a fun challenge. If you still want assured balance, play PvP - at least there you know whatever you're facing is restricted in the same ways you are.

That was the point I was trying to make Silmor. The PvE matchup is out of balance. Even if it is slight it is still not balanced. If the rules are set for the player then the rules need to be set for the mobs as well.

You are most correct that PvP fights are fair and since I am a PvE player I am disadvantaged from get go.

Lucon · Jun 04, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Try soloing with a mesmer and tell me how much you like it.

Dagbiker · Jun 04, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucon

Try soloing with a mesmer and tell me how much you like it.

this isnt helpfull.

Silmor · Jun 04, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Disadvantaged? Like I tried to point out, they have no brains, they have only a few skills they can use linked to attributes they can't influence, they have only one profession, they're forced to wait in one place until you're entirely prepared and ready to face them, they're stuck with one or a few similarly cursed fellows whereas you can take along seven people at once...

And you still think you are at a disadvantage from get go?

Axelia · Jun 04, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Disadvantaged? Like I tried to point out, they have no brains, they have only a few skills they can use linked to attributes they can't influence, they have only one profession, they're forced to wait in one place until you're entirely prepared and ready to face them, they're stuck with one or a few similarly cursed fellows whereas you can take along seven people at once...

And you still think you are at a disadvantage from get go?

Yes. The fact is that extra 24 damage is cheating weather you believe that or not. It breaks or bends the rules giving an advantage to the mob.

Silmor · Jun 04, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

If you want to call that cheating, sure. I thought the discussion was about balance: they're at a significant disadvantage in everything except raw damage, so for proper balance they should be entitled to a bit more oompf.

Not to mention there might easily be something we're overlooking that would explain the damage, or your damage calculator could just be inaccurate. Either way, nobody really cares.

Sereng Amaranth · Jun 04, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

And even with this supposed imbalance, people get past it.

Kazahana · Jun 04, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

if the mobs were as strong as us but us being smarter then it would be unbalanced in our favor so consider thier extra dmg a balancing factor to make up for thier lack of intelligence.

i hate games that favor the player it makes them too easy.

Dagbiker · Jun 04, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

the thing is you play by one set of rules: the abbility to have 8 skills, the abillity to run, the ability to rezerect even, and they play the game by another set of rules: have 3 maby 4 skills if there lucky, the inability to run, and the inibility to rezeruct. it is ballanced through the diversitys, not through the simularitys

Lucon · Jun 04, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

What is a mob?

Preferably, link me to an archive of Online RPG terms, of which mob is one.

Burem · Jun 04, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

THE MOBS ARE NOT BALANCED AGAINST A SINGLE PLAYER. That encounter with the minotaur is in a mission you can bring alot more then a single ranger into. Stop whining. Balance? PVE balance? Wtf are you smoking.

(You're attacking a warrior mob, they are attacking a ranger. Stop being stupid.)

Sereng Amaranth · Jun 04, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucon

What is a mob?

Preferably, link me to an archive of Online RPG terms, of which mob is one.

Its an old term coming from the beginnings of gaming. It refers to mobile objects or something like that. It is a slang term for any of the NPC (non-player character) monsters.

Vertical_Zer0 · Jun 04, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

What, do you want the PvE area to be stupidly easy? Shaddup and play. The game is supposed to present a challenge - I don't want a game if I can just walk through it without even having to pause and think for a few seconds.

Rajamic · Jun 04, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axelia

Yes I did with a attrib of 16 (115%) and a critical hit 141% the total output from a single blow would not exceed 56.7865 (57 rounded up)

You are ignoring the way armor calculations work. The game works off of 60 armor being standard (AKA take 100% damage). If they have enough armor piercing that it is calculating with an armor value below 60 (I believe by that point in the story, Rangers can get 70 armor from collectors, or buy 61 armor), your defenses are actually ADDING damage. So if you are using the 61 armor and they have a 16 Strength (who knows, they might even have a stance that boosts past that), damage will be calculated as if you have only 45 armor. Referring to the Game Machanics guide shows that instead of taking just under 100% damage, you are now taking just under 130% damage. 56.7865 * 1.3 = 73.82245, which is a little higher than their 69 damage. So they aren't necessarily breaking the rules.

This same thing is how I was getting my Ithas bow to do over 100 damage to Charr with things like Power Shot and Penetrating Shot. Charr armor is so low that it boosts your damage.

I'm still a little suspicious of them both getting criticals that close together.

Really though, if you could take on enemies 2 on 1 with brute force, then where would the challenge be for a full team?

Eclair · Jun 04, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I say the mobs are took weak in the game, make them stronger =P

Silmor · Jun 04, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I doubt the argument here was for making monsters weaker, just some annoyance at dying coupled with the possibility of discovering isolated and partial unfairness in the game system.

Eclair · Jun 04, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Well in that case I think the game should be more unfair in favor of the monsters =D

Axelia · Jun 04, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

If I was playing dice and found that they were loaded in favor of the house you can bet your ass I would stop playing that house. I would also remind the house that their rules strictly prohibit cheating which the house itself is doing.

Viruzzz · Jun 04, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

monsters have higher attributes than you might just think, besides, its natural for them to hit you harder, you have less armor, and they are a level higher than you.

have you ever been to the underworld? the ataxe's hit for 130 something damage per hit. on a fully armored lvl 20 warrior.

they have higher weapon attributes than you might just think, and their "weapon" could very well be 20-50 dmg, we will never truly know, they are not unbalanced, they are just weilding other weapons, and have higher attributes than a single player.

and if they ise mighty blow, that means they use some type of hammer, and hammers have a lot of damage. they are bound to hit hard.

did you ever fight your mirror? try doing it at level 20 with the best armor and best weapon you can find. and he will still hit you harder than you can hit him.

edit: if you want balance. go play PvP, everyone has the same options there. monsters just NEED to be better than human players, they are AI units, against a player with an actual brain, they need some kind of advantage for them to be equal to the player. if you want to know exactly how much, go find a ranger monster same level as you, and max your marksmanship attribute, that will tell you what the difference is. you can't compare a ranger to a warrior.

Apophis Jaan · Jun 04, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

The balance versus mobs isnt crucial, this is what parties are for and the henchmen. The balance in PVP is much more important, so I say if they can balance PVP at the result of a few professions being unable to solo, then so be it.